Proposed: That it may take more courage, more moral conviction, and more goodness to be a good person who believes in nothing - that this is it, that there is no god, that we are an accident of nature and physics that just happened to occur, not the end-game of some divine "plan" - than it takes to be a good person who believes in something (assuming that your something is spiritual/religious in nature).
Discuss.
Showing posts with label Church. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Church. Show all posts
Sunday, April 19, 2009
Tuesday, February 26, 2008
An Interesting Question
I just received the following comment and thought I'd reply (since she doesn't have an e-mail address in her profile).
I guess the short answer is "no" - I don't believe that there's one true church. I think that if I were to think that the church I belonged to were the One True Church, I would be claiming more of a knowledge of God and His mind than I'm comfortable with claiming. There are so many different divisions of Christianity, and the differences between some of them are so minor. I am not qualified to decide that these groups are right and these groups are wrong. All I can do is follow my heart and my gut and make a decision that works for me and for my family. I figure that's why God gave me a heart and a gut!
I mean, don't you think it's a little arrogant to think that of all the billions of people in the world, and all the hundreds of different religions and different sects, you just happened to pick the "right" one?
I think there are a lot of paths, in other words, and that God probably doesn't get all hung up on the details (like pagers and music and what the church looks like!).
I was raised Methodist, for the most part, and my husband was raised Presbyterian. We went to the Pres. church for a while when I was a kid, too. The differences between the two are not hugely significant. It's not like one believes in Jesus and the other believes in Xenu. The main thing, for me, is that the Methodist church is more accepting of homosexuals, while the Presbyterian church isn't as accepting. It's not a binary difference, either - it isn't black and white. The M's are more accepting than the P's. It's not like the P's are out protesting at gay peoples' funerals or anything. It's a small doctrinal difference, not something that would affect our everyday life in the church.
I think there's enough hate and nastiness in the world, and no one should create further hate and nastiness against two people who love each other, regardless of those peoples' genders. Perhaps I need to be "teachable" in that regard, I don't know. I can't imagine one day deciding to be less accepting than I am today of any group - whether they're gay, or they're a different race, or whatever. So, perhaps God and I are going to have to have a serious talk about my attitude toward gays one day. Let's assume that I'm wrong, that God thinks gays are bad bad bad, and that I shouldn't be accepting of them. So, here's how I imagine that conversation going:
As for the appearance of the church, the music, etc. being important, you have to remember that we're choosing between two extremely similar churches, doctrinally. If churches were colors, it's not as though we're choosing between black and white, we're choosing between two very similar shades of gray. For both my husband and I, the "feel" of a church is important to us. We don't feel "churchy" in a big steel building with visible i-beams and rock and roll music. We don't feel like we've been to church in an atmosphere like that. You have to understand, these new buildings they're building around here are UGLY. They're built cheaply, and poorly. At the Methodist church we went to there's something wrong with the ceiling and it kept making noises throughout the service. It's very distracting, and it's hard to get into a reverent and spiritual frame of mind, for me, when I'm afraid the ceiling's going to cave in on my head. Although, it does give me something to pray about. "Please God, if the ceiling caves in, let me get out of here with my family!"
As for the preschool situation, the number of young families that belong, and other considerations I mentioned... You have to understand that the primary reason we're going to church is because of our kids. Both my husband and I believe in God, Jesus, and the whole Christian thing, but we've never regularly attended church on our own. The fact is that we've always had other stuff to do. (If I'm going to hell, it's probably for that more than the gay thing!!) However, we both feel that it's important to raise our kids with religion. For one thing, studies show that kids with a belief in a higher power who cares about them do better in life (resist peer pressure, don't do drugs, don't get pregnant at 14, etc.) than kids who don't believe in a caring higher power. For another, it gives them a group of peers outside of the group of peers at school - which may become important for them when they're older. Popularity in school matters less if you have a dozen close friends at church. I also want to get them into preschool, and I'm excited about the Pres. preschool program. The Methodist church doesn't have a preschool.
Maybe going to church for my kids will strengthen my own beliefs. I hope so. I'm kind of a Christmas/Easter Christian now (actually, the last few years I haven't even made those services regularly!).
So, I hope that answers your questions. Next time leave an e-mail! ;)
As for traveling with four kids - oh wow. That's beyond my area of expertise. I hope you found my post on traveling with a baby useful. You should talk to a teacher about how to handle field trips! I think that would be more similar to your situation than our trip with one!
Good luck,
Amy
I know that you don't know me from Adam, but I found your blog while searching for tips on flying with kids. We will be moving in a few months and my husband is going a couple of weeks before me, which means I will be flying with my four children.....alone. When I saw your "church" tag I was curious. I guess my question is, do you not believe there is one true church. A church where, you know it is the one God has set up on the earth to be His church and that even if there are doctrines you don't "agree" with, maybe that is something you have to overcome and be teachable in that? And if you truely believe that doctrine is wrong, why would you go to that church?First of all, no offense taken. I think it's an interesting question.
I just can't image liking this church because it looks like a church, but liking this other one because you get paged during the service because your kids need you. I'm not trying to be rude, I'm truely curious.
I guess the short answer is "no" - I don't believe that there's one true church. I think that if I were to think that the church I belonged to were the One True Church, I would be claiming more of a knowledge of God and His mind than I'm comfortable with claiming. There are so many different divisions of Christianity, and the differences between some of them are so minor. I am not qualified to decide that these groups are right and these groups are wrong. All I can do is follow my heart and my gut and make a decision that works for me and for my family. I figure that's why God gave me a heart and a gut!
I mean, don't you think it's a little arrogant to think that of all the billions of people in the world, and all the hundreds of different religions and different sects, you just happened to pick the "right" one?
I think there are a lot of paths, in other words, and that God probably doesn't get all hung up on the details (like pagers and music and what the church looks like!).
I was raised Methodist, for the most part, and my husband was raised Presbyterian. We went to the Pres. church for a while when I was a kid, too. The differences between the two are not hugely significant. It's not like one believes in Jesus and the other believes in Xenu. The main thing, for me, is that the Methodist church is more accepting of homosexuals, while the Presbyterian church isn't as accepting. It's not a binary difference, either - it isn't black and white. The M's are more accepting than the P's. It's not like the P's are out protesting at gay peoples' funerals or anything. It's a small doctrinal difference, not something that would affect our everyday life in the church.
I think there's enough hate and nastiness in the world, and no one should create further hate and nastiness against two people who love each other, regardless of those peoples' genders. Perhaps I need to be "teachable" in that regard, I don't know. I can't imagine one day deciding to be less accepting than I am today of any group - whether they're gay, or they're a different race, or whatever. So, perhaps God and I are going to have to have a serious talk about my attitude toward gays one day. Let's assume that I'm wrong, that God thinks gays are bad bad bad, and that I shouldn't be accepting of them. So, here's how I imagine that conversation going:
God: Amy, you really screwed up on the gay thing. I am not amused.Would I choose a church that required me to go out and preach against gays? No, because that would be in direct violation of my own beliefs, and the greater belief that I believe is at the core of Christianity, and that is Love. But can I deal with a church that may have a slightly different opinion on gays than I do, considering that I am not personally gay, so long as other aspects of that church are comfortable and in line with my own personal beliefs and interpretation of the Bible. Sure.
Amy: Well, God, I did the best I could. I never hurt anybody. I wasn't gay myself. I didn't "promote" being gay in any way (unless you count watching Queer Eye). I just tried to love the people in my path as best I could, regardless of whether or not they were gay, and I'm sorry if that offends You.
God: Oh, whatever. Let's go get some ice cream.
As for the appearance of the church, the music, etc. being important, you have to remember that we're choosing between two extremely similar churches, doctrinally. If churches were colors, it's not as though we're choosing between black and white, we're choosing between two very similar shades of gray. For both my husband and I, the "feel" of a church is important to us. We don't feel "churchy" in a big steel building with visible i-beams and rock and roll music. We don't feel like we've been to church in an atmosphere like that. You have to understand, these new buildings they're building around here are UGLY. They're built cheaply, and poorly. At the Methodist church we went to there's something wrong with the ceiling and it kept making noises throughout the service. It's very distracting, and it's hard to get into a reverent and spiritual frame of mind, for me, when I'm afraid the ceiling's going to cave in on my head. Although, it does give me something to pray about. "Please God, if the ceiling caves in, let me get out of here with my family!"
As for the preschool situation, the number of young families that belong, and other considerations I mentioned... You have to understand that the primary reason we're going to church is because of our kids. Both my husband and I believe in God, Jesus, and the whole Christian thing, but we've never regularly attended church on our own. The fact is that we've always had other stuff to do. (If I'm going to hell, it's probably for that more than the gay thing!!) However, we both feel that it's important to raise our kids with religion. For one thing, studies show that kids with a belief in a higher power who cares about them do better in life (resist peer pressure, don't do drugs, don't get pregnant at 14, etc.) than kids who don't believe in a caring higher power. For another, it gives them a group of peers outside of the group of peers at school - which may become important for them when they're older. Popularity in school matters less if you have a dozen close friends at church. I also want to get them into preschool, and I'm excited about the Pres. preschool program. The Methodist church doesn't have a preschool.
Maybe going to church for my kids will strengthen my own beliefs. I hope so. I'm kind of a Christmas/Easter Christian now (actually, the last few years I haven't even made those services regularly!).
So, I hope that answers your questions. Next time leave an e-mail! ;)
As for traveling with four kids - oh wow. That's beyond my area of expertise. I hope you found my post on traveling with a baby useful. You should talk to a teacher about how to handle field trips! I think that would be more similar to your situation than our trip with one!
Good luck,
Amy
Monday, February 11, 2008
Aw, Jeez...
So then I totally forgot to tell you the story about the car. This is what happens when I write in 2 minute increments.
We've been having trouble with the transmission in the van. Sometimes it just doesn't want to come out of park, so you have to sit there and doink around with it until it decides that it's ready to go. I think it has to do with the remote starter... Anyway, BJ got in to drive and he couldn't get it out of Park. After several attempts, I said, "Let me try," so we switched seats and I tried, unsuccessfully, to get the car into reverse.
After several attempts I stopped, closed my eyes, and said, "Listen, Lord. If you want us in church today, you need to do something about this." I opened my eyes and tried again, and the car slid perfectly into reverse.
Ha!
We've been having trouble with the transmission in the van. Sometimes it just doesn't want to come out of park, so you have to sit there and doink around with it until it decides that it's ready to go. I think it has to do with the remote starter... Anyway, BJ got in to drive and he couldn't get it out of Park. After several attempts, I said, "Let me try," so we switched seats and I tried, unsuccessfully, to get the car into reverse.
After several attempts I stopped, closed my eyes, and said, "Listen, Lord. If you want us in church today, you need to do something about this." I opened my eyes and tried again, and the car slid perfectly into reverse.
Ha!
And on the eighth day He put the car in gear...
So, as I've mentioned, we've been looking for a church to call home. This has been an ongoing discussion ever since we got married, but BJ and I haven't put a lot of energy into it, for a variety of reasons, until now. I'm really proud of us that we've made it to church 2 weeks in a row (BJ has made it 3 weeks, but Claire was sick that first morning...)
He has been to the traditional service at St. Andrew UMC, and we've both been to the contemporary service. We went to the early service this week at Covenant Presbyterian, which was kind of a fusion service, they did rock and roll and hymns on the organ. Something for everyone.
I was raised Methodist, and believe the same things the M's believe, for the most part. I have some major doctrinal differences with the P's, actually, but they're not such that they would interfere with my feeling comfortable in a P church. Mainly, the thing I like about Methodists is that the doors are open to everyone, while the P's have some issues with homosexuals, etc. that I disagree with. But, since I'm not homosexual, I could put that aside if the rest of the church atmosphere is agreeable.
So, doctrinally, I like the Methodist church. It's a little smaller (but not small), and the people were very welcoming. There were only 3 other kids in MG's age group, and there's no preschool program that I know of. We know one other family who goes there. They have a brand new church which is fairly close to our house.
On the other hand, Covenant is so close to our house that we could easily walk in nice weather. It's bigger, and the people were nice, but it would be a lot easier to get lost in the crowd, there (which isn't necessarily a bad thing). They have a preschool program, which is something I'm very interested in getting MG into this fall, and I think the continuity of going to church and school at the same place would be good for her. There are a bunch of kids her age - dozens, actually, although they weren't all there Sunday, of course. The church is older and rather labyrinthine, but it feels like a church, which is important to me. It seems that both of their services are mixed contemporary and traditional, so we'd have to put up with the rock and roll, but at least that means we could sleep in without penalty. They also have pagers for the parents, so if your kid freaks out they can call you out of the service to come and fix her. I like that. We know two other families who go to Covenant, including our doctor, which would be kind of cool.
BJ wants me to see the traditional service at St. Andrew before we decide. I'm kind of leaning toward Covenant, though, mainly because of the other kids and the preschool program. The main reason to go to church is because we think it's good for the kids, and I think they'll get more out of it if there are lots of children there to be friends with.
Any thoughts?
He has been to the traditional service at St. Andrew UMC, and we've both been to the contemporary service. We went to the early service this week at Covenant Presbyterian, which was kind of a fusion service, they did rock and roll and hymns on the organ. Something for everyone.
I was raised Methodist, and believe the same things the M's believe, for the most part. I have some major doctrinal differences with the P's, actually, but they're not such that they would interfere with my feeling comfortable in a P church. Mainly, the thing I like about Methodists is that the doors are open to everyone, while the P's have some issues with homosexuals, etc. that I disagree with. But, since I'm not homosexual, I could put that aside if the rest of the church atmosphere is agreeable.
So, doctrinally, I like the Methodist church. It's a little smaller (but not small), and the people were very welcoming. There were only 3 other kids in MG's age group, and there's no preschool program that I know of. We know one other family who goes there. They have a brand new church which is fairly close to our house.
On the other hand, Covenant is so close to our house that we could easily walk in nice weather. It's bigger, and the people were nice, but it would be a lot easier to get lost in the crowd, there (which isn't necessarily a bad thing). They have a preschool program, which is something I'm very interested in getting MG into this fall, and I think the continuity of going to church and school at the same place would be good for her. There are a bunch of kids her age - dozens, actually, although they weren't all there Sunday, of course. The church is older and rather labyrinthine, but it feels like a church, which is important to me. It seems that both of their services are mixed contemporary and traditional, so we'd have to put up with the rock and roll, but at least that means we could sleep in without penalty. They also have pagers for the parents, so if your kid freaks out they can call you out of the service to come and fix her. I like that. We know two other families who go to Covenant, including our doctor, which would be kind of cool.
BJ wants me to see the traditional service at St. Andrew before we decide. I'm kind of leaning toward Covenant, though, mainly because of the other kids and the preschool program. The main reason to go to church is because we think it's good for the kids, and I think they'll get more out of it if there are lots of children there to be friends with.
Any thoughts?
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